Forums, Electrical Systems, Navigation and Safety equipment, Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
00:39 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
George Isted at 22/10/2013 16:52:17
The normal position for an autopilot in a Co32 is to fit it to the top of the starboard seat bench, and while this works ok it does lead to a couple of problems.. 1.The fixing point on the tiller is outside the 14-18"; range of how far it should be fitted from the rudder stock, this leads toââ¬Â¦. a. not being able to put the helm fully over for a big course correction (often needed when under spinnaker) or to Tack b. secondly it makes the autopilot work harder as it has to extend or retract the ram more for a given course correction 2. the tiller pilot is vulnerable to being sat, knelt or stood-on. 3. In the case of the larger fixed-installation Autopilots (I’m thinking Raymarine ST4000, SPX-5 and the latest one EV-100) the Ram is a little too long to be fitted at right-angles to the tiller so you either fit it slightly a-skew or accept that it will push the helm further over to port than it will too starboard. Having used my ST2000 close to self-destruction (they are really not rated for extended use on a CO32) I want to fit Raymarine’s latest offering the EV-100, but I also don’t want the restrictions above. A bit of measuring-up suggests that the best place to locate the Ram would be just under the cockpit seat with the ram recessed into the cockpit side using a suitably strong custom-made GRP moulding that can be bonded from the inside to the cockpit side, with additional bonding to the underside of the seat to ensure it takes all the loading with no problems. The downside is that I would lose perhaps 4-6"; of height at the very end of the quarter-berth. So, tell me, is this a mad idea? Anyone foresee a problem with this?
00:39 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
moongirl at 23/10/2013 20:31:44
George
One thought occurs to in particular, namely the push/pull load would increase the closer the ram attachment to the rudder stock ie less leverage – you wouldn’t try steering with your hands way down the tiller!
I will have a look at the EV 10 to see the relative diameters of ram/housing – would you push the assembly through the cockpit side into the quarter berth?
Some ingenuity might be needed at the inboard end as gravity normally holds the ‘pin’ into the seat and with your suggestion a bracket would be needed to replicate this as the deck head would be above.
Hope this helps
Regards
00:39 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
moongirl at 23/10/2013 20:49:56
Hi George
Had a look at the Unit and it appears conventional ie large tube with a smaller ram and ‘pin’ type fixings either end. So my previous post is correct!
Over to you for the Geometry!
Regards
00:39 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
George Isted at 24/10/2013 10:37:19
Hi Colin, You are correct on both counts, yet the loadings will be higher but my intention is to stay within the manufacturers range of 14-18"; from the stock so should be ok. At the moment it is not possible to fit the tiller within this range without either lifting up the tiller or lowering the Ram. My st2000 is approx 20"; from the stock. An alternative solution to have a tiller-pin in the 14-18"; range with sufficient height to allow a seat-top installation would be to have a much larger and taller fitting on the tiller but it would not allow the tiller to lift up and out of the way when not in use (rough measurements suggest a taller tiller fitting would hit stern cockpit locker-top before the tiller was fully lifted). The Ram is unchanged from earlier models, it is just the controller (Brains) and movement sensor/compass (Nervous system) that is new on the EV-100. The Ram is the same as was on the SPX5, S1 and ST4000. The plan is to still use gravity to keep the Ram located into a custom GRP moulding in the side of the cockpit (extending under the seat and into the top of the Qtr-berth).
00:40 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
nardus at 28/10/2013 08:56:05
The EV 100 takes 11 seconds to make a full correction from port to sb.. Will this be sufficient when the chute`s up in moderate winds? Why not hooking up your st2000 on your Windvane Steering ?(if you have one) faster response, less draining on the batteries, more steering power and no mounting problems.
00:40 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
George Isted at 28/10/2013 12:13:14
Hi Ben, Where did you get the “11-seconds” from as I cannot find that in the specification and it seems a long time. Raymarine used to give this info for the ST1000 and 2000 models and I recall the 2000 being much faster. I can not find this info at all now for any model. The windvane steering is very good on a longer offshore trip but not ideal for inshore/coastal sailing/racing + the cockpit control lines get in the way if you are having to be active in and around the cockpit playing with spinnakers. Also the windvane (and st2000) struggle when reaching with the spinnaker in marginal conditions, it is one of the reasons for buying a decent fixed-install pilot.
00:40 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
00:40 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
George Isted at 28/10/2013 16:24:01
Ah, I think that is for fitting to a steering quadrant on a larger boat. The standard tiller ram that comes with the EV100 is http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=7679&collectionid=65&col=6603
00:40 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
nardus at 29/10/2013 09:46:17
My bad, but I can`t find the lock to lock time specs for this tiller ram anywhere ?
00:40 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
George Isted at 29/10/2013 10:01:55
I shall ask Raymarine tech support as that’s good info to have.
00:40 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
St Paddy at 03/12/2013 11:18:21
Have you thought about an under deck arrangement with type one linear drive. I think its possible you will need to cut the Rudder tube and fit a tiller arm and a gland. I haven’t got further as my ST4000 works well but I have a life raft locker built into the quarter berth so its stronger
00:40 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
Nick Howes at 12/01/2014 21:06:54
Hi George,
did you come to any final conclusions ref the fitting of the EV100 ? I was looking at it today at the boat show-a very neat unit and one I would like to fit.
Regards, Nick
00:41 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
waratah912 at 12/01/2014 22:29:56
Another mad idea :
Why not use a bracket on the tiller which is both cranked and offset to port to give you sufficient space to mount it in the same way as an ST2000?
Does the fact that it’s effectively using a short extension tiller to port affect the response if the autopilot fitting is at the same radius as it would be if it were on the tiller directly?
00:41 16 October 2023
Autopilot fitting - Mad idea or been done before?
George Isted at 13/01/2014 11:20:14
Hi Nick, It is still my intention to fit an EV100 as it looks like a good bit of kit, the boat budget is being hit with a few other things first but hopfully I can get it in the spring. Re fitting. I’m pretty convinced that a custom GRP moulding that allows to the ram to be fitted in a recess under the cockpit seat will work well but may not have the time to investigate further due to other projects. In the short term I may use the existing arrangement and accept the compromise. Hi Paul, Yes I had considered that and it solves the issue of the longer ram and having an equall amount of travel in each directing. Unfortunatly it does not solve the issue of how to move the tiller pin closer to the rudderstock to give a greater range of movement on the rudder. It may be that a larger and more more complicated (and offset) bracket is the way to go but I think it would need to be removable as a larger (taller) fixed tiller bracket will interfere with the stern locker when the tiller it lifted up. Once I have bought the EV100 I will probably try and mock this up in cardboard or thin plastic and see it it’s possible.
Happy to report back once progress has been made.