Forums, Mast, Rigging and Sails, Headsail sizes

James Chew at 24/06/2013 19:04:22
Hi everyone, I’m a bit confused over what sizes of (hank-on) jibs/genoas are made for Contessas. I have a number one genoa, a storm jib, and a sail that says ‘number 2 jib’ on it, which is high-cut ‘yankee’ type thing that doesn’t quit reach back to the shrouds.

I find that the number 1 is a real pain as I do most of my sailing short-handed, and I only cruise, so having to skirt it over the rail, and not being able to see much ahead is not ideal. However, my next sail is tiny, so I’m looking for one halfway in between.

Can anyone tell me which sail this is?: http://www.co32.org/SECTION_Gallery/CONTESSA%20CRUISING/slides/BADGER.html
That looks like just the job(/jib). I wondered if it was a number 2 genoa, but then seeing the sailplan drawing on the technical papers part of the website it looks more like what is shown there as a staysail – or maybe it’s neither.

Can anyone advise? Thanks very much.

George Isted at 25/06/2013 10:54:58
Hi James, From your description the sail you have called No2 sounds more like a No3/4 sized sail if it does not reach the shrouds. I agree that a No1, especially if not on a furling system is going to be a handful when single or short-handed. I sail short/single-handed with a small No 2 sized Genoa, it is about 28.5 Sq M, it is on a Harken furler and normally skirts itself. If you don’t have a furler you could achieve the same thing by having a wire strop added to the tack so that the sail sets just above the guard-rails – this also improves visibility when looking forward as you can see under the sail. For windy stuff I recommend a No 4 and/or storm jib, having these as a Yankee/high clew cut not only helps with visibility but is also less likely to hold water when a wave breaks over the deck. The picture you linked to is Badger who’s owner Richard does watch the forums so I’m sure we will respond. Hope this helps, I’m sure others will respond, if not have a chat with your sail maker and take their advice (especially if they know Co32’s well).

James Chew at 25/06/2013 17:53:01
Thanks George.

Yes it certainly isn’t the number 2 genoa that I have, but it’s labelled ‘number 2 jib’, so I wondered if it went something like: no1 genoa, no2 genoa, no1 jib, no2 jib, storm jib.

Having looked at the technical drawings (http://www.co32.org/SECTION_Technical/DRAWINGS/CO32_SAIL_PLAN.pdf), it looks to me like the number 2 genoa is barely any smaller than the number 1 – the one labelled as a staysail looks like what I want (though I’ve always thought a staysail was the inner-most jib in a cutter rig???)

James Chew at 25/06/2013 17:57:14
ps. This sail looks suitable too:

http://www.co32.org/SECTION_Gallery/PORSTMOUTH2012/index.html#23%20June%202012%2014_43_25.jpg

Is that a number 2? I like the way the foot slopes up so the clew is above the guardrail despite being tacked right to the bow.

Sorry for all the questions – I just don’t want to buy the wrong thing!

Richard Ritchie at 26/06/2013 10:05:04
James,
The photo you originally showed was an old one of my boat before I owned it. Probably the No2.
Yours does sound more like a No 3/4.
I have now upgraded to a new furler, of similar size to a large No 2, from Peter Sanders. He is very helpful and knowledgeable: it would be worth you talking it through with him. (or your other chosen provider, but pick someone who knows the Contessa.)

For short handed sailing, too large a headsail is a pain and/ or dangerous. Peter suggests 135-140%.
Mine is quoted as 29.5m2, so a large “No 2”. 140% of foretiangle. (LL = 10.9, LP = 5.42) Seems about right though I do miss the extra in light airs. The previous roller was nearer 32m2 and was too big and too often rolled so inefficient. Also hard to tack when fully unrolled.
I selected a vektran (dacron plus special fibres) sail rather than laminate, because of fears of mildew, resilience (in a trade-off against perfection) and ability to roll it and forget it when leaving the boat for a week or so: no need to take down, dry and fold. This suits a cruising lifestyle.
George will tell you his laminate is well behaved because you can sheet it harder and pull it flatter, and without worry about damging it… But his is about the same size I think.
Note: if on a furler, the furler needs to be high enough to allow easy anchor use, and then skirting is not a problem.

James Chew at 26/06/2013 22:27:13
Thank you Richard.

Actually, I’m looking at buying a second hand sail, I’m just trying to make sure I get the one I want.

What do ‘LL’ and ‘LP’ stand for? And does 140% mean 140% of the area of the triangle between mast, forestay and deck?

Thanks

Galatea at 27/06/2013 09:54:55
James,
look here: http://www.secondwindsails.com/measurement.php
for explanation of sail plan measurement terms.
Mark

Edited: Galatea on 2013-06-27 09:55:49

Richard Ritchie at 27/06/2013 10:04:28
You are not alone in finding the nomenclature complex: it is driven by the racers.
LP (Luff Perpendicular) is the distance from clew to luff, taken perpendicular to teh forestay. That makes sense. J is the distance from foot of forestay to front of mast.
The % is less obvious: I always thought it was % of foretriangle area as you suggest. But checking, I find that it is the LP divided by J, i.e a comparison of LENGTHS not areas.
See this North sails link: I assume they have it right.
http://www.northsails.com/uk/SailBetter/GenoaTrim/DescribingaGenoa/tabid/7044/Default.aspx.

In terms of finding a sail: you also need to think about the weight of the material: a racing No 2 may be too light for general purpose cruising on a furler. And whether on a foil, on hanks or on a furler (needs a UV strip) ,

How new a sail are you looking for? I still have the previous No2 in the garage… quite a nice general purpose sail but no UV strip yet and with a luff rope for a rotostay so larger then normal (7mm). (Cost to change luff rope is usually about £150.)

James Chew at 28/06/2013 18:40:55
I’m buying one from Rob Duke – it’s a hank on one. I’m not sure what weight the material is.

Thanks for the advice everyone.